Comments and Questions on Proposed Grading Changes

The Friday, December 24, 2010 Herald has an interesting post for former Teacher of The Year Bryan Coburn concerning Grading Policy Concerns. You should pick up a copy. Below are  questions and/or comments I have received from staff and community concerning the discussion on possible grading policy changes:

• District Three has a South Carolina Teacher of The Year on Staff.  Why is he not involved with this process? This would go a long way toward achieving buy-in.
• How were the teachers picked for the grading evaluation team? What was the average attendance for meetings and did any of the teachers drop off (or stop going to meetings)? Why were the teachers told not to talk with the news media?
• With a concentration on retest and a mastery of content, would an expected outcome be no one entering high school at less than an 8th grade level in reading and/or math? Will this be one of the middle school measures?
• Would  grouping of students by ability make it easier to implement a grading policy such as this?
• The administration suggested that only 10 to 20% of the teachers have problems with the proposed changes and we shouldn't be held captive by such a small group. Would you share those poll results and explain how you conducted the poll? Has a similar poll been conducted with parents? 
• Why don't we have parents and local business/education leaders on the committee? Student Leaders?
• Good team dynamics would say the committee currently set up is too big to be functional. Why has the team/committee not be divided up into highly functioning groups of 5 to 7 people?
• There is a big difference between middle school and high school. Why are the two groups lumped together?
• Brain studies suggest that executive function is a better determining factor for success than IQ and is more likely the reason students don't turn in work on time than different learning styles. What are we doing for this? When and how often do we evaluate?
• The block schedule is not good for these "slow learner students", are we having a discussion about dropping the block schedule and, if not, why not?
• How many students fall into the category of slow/late learner? We have said that we cannot afford to apply everything at all schools. Should we put our best teachers on the new grading at Saluda Trail and South Pointe and make those schools of choice for grading?
• Montgomery County Maryland, a district mentioned in the studies, tracks their graduates through college and measures progress. Are we doing this? Are we going to start, if not, why? Wouldn't this be a good measure to see if grading changes would make any difference?
• If zero % of a grade can be class participation, then why limit the number of absences for a student who has mastered material?  What's the difference between a student who is present and not participating and one who is not present at all (other than the dollars that student brings to the district budget)?
• Our Mission:  Rock Hill Schools will provide all students with challenging work that authentically engages them in the learning process and prepares them for successful futures.  How does the no grade for class participation aspect "authentically engage them in the learning process?  How is this  approach to cheating, late work without penalty, and retesting "prepare them for successful futures?" 
• What specific outcomes have been measured at the pilot sites before implementation that will be remeasured after implementation, and what change is the district looking for to determine success at the pilot sites? What will be the results that will drive further implementation or stop the trial?
• Will the district consider exempting AP and IB classes since  dual credit classes are already exempt because of York Tech Requirements? 
• We need to make the "non-academic" penalty for cheating much harder (clean bathrooms for a week) since the academic penalty would be reduced.
• The district penalty system uses removal from academics as punishment. When will an alternative school, or alternative school within a school become a reality and who on staff has this as an assignment?
• You mentioned a time limit  for homework, was that total for all subjects or for an individual subject? If for all subjects, how do you propose for this to be managed at the high school level?
• If this is a recommendation from "High Schools that Work", would you give us a list of districts that have implemented this and the % of schools using "High Schools That Work" that have implemented it?
• Students who do the work, do it well and do it on time should be rewarded. Life is not fair. Regardless of whether you go to college or not, students will not be rewarded or given numerous chances in the real world if work is not done well or  timely. It is not fair for students to turn in work whenever and to  take a test over with such a small penalty or no penalty. 
• We will be doing for the regular students what we've been doing for special needs kids for years.
• What kind of support will teachers have  to be available for tutoring and retesting opportunities?
• High school is  preparation for the real world and this system  contradicts what parents are trying to teach their children.
• Only someone without a life  has the time to put into assessing “half” of the semester’s work in the last week or so of school.  I don’t know how a young teacher with a new spouse, maybe a young baby, a new house, etc., could possibly do it. Retesting, or rework is inefficient. A company would go out of business based on this policy.  How are you going to  get buy-in from these teachers?
• There’s no way a person  can keep up with (or maybe better, should be expected to keep up with) 70-90 students turning work in one day (that’s 5%), two days (that’s 10%), three days (that’s 15%), etc., late and getting their grades adjusted accordingly. How do you propose for this to be managed?
• Mastery should be a go/no-go decision.  Have we considered  grades  without time-lines.  You work with a concept as an 8-year old until you master it – whether that happens at 8 years and 2 months or 9 years and 3 months.  Children learn (and master) at different rates.  Why expect them all to master  grade material in one year?
• The biggest variable, after the student, to mastering content, is the teacher, not the grading policy. Why do you think this will make any difference? If content is mastered - why doesn't the data show it (other than grade inflation).
• When will retesting be done and who will administer the test (teachers now have morning and afternoon duty)?  If before or after school, will the district provide transportation for the students?
• Being accountable/responsible is one of the qualities the community expects the district to reinforce. If we don't hold the student accountable for all their work, when/how do we reinforce this skill? 
• Where will the money come from to print the extra tests? What will teachers be allowed to "give up" to provide the extra work/tests?
• The retesting policy, in its present form, takes accountability away from the student and places it on the teacher.   We should not  give  students any reason to work less diligently. The policy takes away a teachers ability to use  professional judgment. What type of student would you like to teach? One that is going to try and give their best effort  or one that decides when he wants to achieve? Students will do the minimum they have to.
• It's time for the district staff to go back into the classroom for awhile!
• I believe in expectations. I also believe that students will rise to the occasion and will be a better citizen because they know that they have had to work to achieve and succeed and haven’t just had it handed to them! Do you think the Northwestern coaching staff expects less than the players best effort? If they did, do you think they'd be state champs?
•  If the students take another test on the same material, is the retesting showing learning or have the students only improved their test taking skills? Since high school is on a block schedule when does the retest take place?  Is it fair for the retest to take away from instruction time?  Is it fair to ask teachers to stay late or come in early to accommodate retests?  
• Can the teacher set a certain time for the retest and if the student does not come, then the first grade stands?  Bottom line, how can a grading policy apply to all disciplines at all grade levels?  
• Should  a rule  be applied to all subjects? For example, class participation should not be a part of the grade. What about for; Physical Education; Chorus; Band; Art; Public Speaking; Home Arts; and/or Foreign Language to name a few. Wouldn't class participation be integral to these subjects? If not, why?
• Setting how much certain grades should be worth. In subjects where skills build upon themselves, such as math, foreign language, and science - shouldn't tests toward the end of year  count more?
• They say teachers are abusing the system now. How many teachers? How do their students perform on required state testing? Why can't our Principals manage this? If they can't, how will they manage a new grading policy?
• They say students should  have limited penalties for cheating, late work or no work. Is this the real world? Is that the way we operate our district? If an employee puts down wrong information on a time sheet, what do we do? If a teacher always turns grades in after the deadline, what do we do?
• Wouldn't all this discussion be better served with  Professional Development? If not, why?
• The world is not fair.  Adults showing children  they can be rewarded for being irresponsible is very wrong.  It is also a  poor lesson for the children who work hard and do the assignments on time.  They are being given a backhanded lesson that they skim on their work and it just won’t matter, so hard work doesn't have its own rewards. 
• This is an example of how we are dumbing down our society and teaching our children  they do not need to be responsible for themselves and their actions don’t have consequences.  We need to teach our kids that setting the bar high is a good thing.  Striving for something is a good thing.  We also need to teach our kids the world is a competitive place.  Instead, we are teaching them that laziness will be rewarded.  
• Sometimes failing is the only way to teach a kid to do the right thing.
• It takes away almost every purpose of giving students a deadline on work because kids can turn in work at anytime. 
• You have to include the community. Parents are involved whether you want them to be or not.  You can't just assume that Parents don't know what's good for their children.
• For some, the notion of a policy which allows students caught cheating to get away with it amounts to undermining the ethics and values which parents are trying to instill at home,  reinforces the culture of cheating  and renders good parents insignificant.
• Reducing the possibility of outright failure gives teachers less leverage while also giving students unrealistic expectations about the adult world they soon will enter.
• This takes away one of the very few tools Teachers have to get kids to learn. The possibility of failing is a motivator. Now kids are under the impression they can do the work whenever they want to, and it's not that big of a deal. It's an out. The root problem is motivation (lack of a developed executive function). The root problem is not that we're not teaching them.
• What about the conscientious student who keeps up with class, studies until 2 a.m. and pulls an A on a math test? Should a peer who skipped class and flubbed the test twice or three times get an equal grade? With the new policy, the ultimate grade on a student transcript could be the same, even though the two students took very different paths. 
• What is a grade  going to mean now? What does an A mean now? Does an A between different teachers ever mean the same thing?
• When will teachers find the extra time to work with students who have in-completes? What about students who game the system? How can learning continue sequentially if makeup assignments remain undone?
• If students don’t get at least 50 percent on their  final, they should have to retake the course. It would also dramatically change the culture of the school and put the pressure on the students, where it should be.
• Teachers are being blamed for lax student performance when it is the student who should be held more accountable.
• Why not hold students accountable for the first test scores (initial learning)? (Example, give an average of the two grades.)
• Can we put a cap on the first test grade obtained?  If they make an 85 or above then they are not allowed to retest (The higher scoring students are protected if the grades are averaged).
• How will GPA and class rank be obtained when students are allowed to retest?
• Will the teacher be allowed to set the deadline  for projects, make-up work, and retest so there is  not a burden of ungodly work load at the end of the grading period?
• How are we deterring students from cheating with such a small repercussion?
• With classes on such time constraints in regards to teaching the standards, how are we going to have the time to reteach and retest?
• What is your plan to get buy-in from parents?
• Because of the subjective nature of rubrics, will the new grading policy eliminate the use of them?
• Teachers use grades as a penalty for class conduct because administrators will not discipline students for misbehaving in class. If you take this ability away, a disruptive student will affect the learning environment of the students who are there to learn.
• Why don't we drop the 0 to 100 scale and go to a 4 point scale?
• If grading is already 61/50, why change to a lower value?

Comments From The Herald Online:

• As a teacher in the Rock Hill School District, I understand the need to help students achieve success. We need to re-mediate our students when necessary, we do not need to allow students to re-take and re-take tests. Teachers know which students are struggling to understand the concepts being taught and which students are not succeeding due to poor work ethic, laziness etc. It is not fair to those students who study, work hard, and are responsible enough to do the right thing the first time. We are setting our students up for failure. Unfortunately, the district has already implemented a new report card/grading system in the elementary school that takes away any competition or motivation to succeed. 
• The idea is great, and I partly encourage it, but as a recent high school graduate, I have to say that eliminating zeros in high school will do nothing but hurt them later when they are in college. They need to understand NO WORK , NO GRADE and how zeros can really affect ones grade. It's excellent that teachers want their students to learn the material, but "sugar coating" things is doing them a disservice. Something I now realize being that I'm in college. Just my opinion.
• The "new" grading process is nothing more than the continued dumbing down of society. 
• I agree with the posts about the poor work ethic of our youth, I also work in staffing, my favorite quote of this year is "I did not know I had to work in order to keep my job". I think they should explore the current system of 1hour 50 minute classes, and using in-school suspension, and then the child loses that entire time of education for one sometimes 2 days. This generation is "soft", and we did it through self-esteem building and electronics. 
• We need to give the power back to the teachers.
• This doesn't make any sense to me. If the only problem is "re-learning" and "re-taking" test, why don't the teachers teach more thoroughly, give a practice test, review the practice test then give the real test once and only once. This is just the history of not focusing on the real problem repeating itself all over again. Very few educators will openly discuss or address the real issues, which are lack of parental involvement/support and a culture, both among black and white, of not valuing education. If the parents value education, students perform better. Not having to do homework and receiving a 40 for doing nothing are both just bad ideas. Why do we always seem to fall to the lowest common denominator. This system will penalize the good students and reward the bad students...pretty soon we'll have all bad students. Based on the comments in the article from those pushing this system, we better get ready for a battle.
• If you can recognize most of the letters in your name go to the next grade. We don't want to make it too hard for our kids. After all America is far ahead of the rest of the world, especially in math and science. We need to sit back and let the rest of the world catch up. It isn't fair for us to be so far ahead. Do we want to be responsible for giving the rest of the planet a bad view of themselves.
• Sounds like an incentive to give everyone an "A".
• So the district can't get the students to achieve the grades desired and the solution is to rewrite the rules to make it easier to score higher? I wish I had this when I was in school. I could really B.S. my g.p.a.! A student can sleep through the first test and then get two retakes to make it up. I can imagine how hard this is going to be on students who listen in class (the 1st time like they are supposed to), do their homework (which is a large component that should get more than 10%), and have a hard work ethic (a few and far between occurrence). I remember how tight some of my classmates were attempting to score as high of grades possible and now this system negates that work ethic. School is not only about book knowledge, but a preparation for college and the working world. I would love to tell my boss that I put forth zero effort but deserve 40% of the pay. I would love to tell him that I cheated but it is not a big deal; just take 20% off the top. 
• I understand fairness and wanting to make a level playing field for all of the schools and students, but these suggestions are a way to bring up the bottom performers (whom most give little to no effort) and inflate grades. With new age garbage like this and No Child Left Behind, we can rename high school diplomas. They will become participation certificates.
• Another question I have is what are the kids that get it the first time going to be doing while teacher re-teaches and re-tests the underachievers? There are some kids that are naturally bright and will get this the first time around. So do we just forget about them because they happen to be intelligent and motivated? Aside from being taught at home personal responsibility and pride in doing something well, what is their motivation to continue to do well? 
• Being in Human Resources for over 40 years, I have found the trend to be, especially during the last 10 yrs or so, "...its not my fault that I did bad work on that piece of equipment and I should not be disciplined because I miss a day of work every week..." It is a trend that is increasing almost on a daily basis. The young men and women who are going into the workforce from the high schools have no work ethic, feel the Company (world) owes them a living, should be able to work when it is convenient to them (not when the company needs them) and no concept of being held responsible for their work output (quality is a thing of the past). I direct this in part to parents but even more so to the schools.  This proposal will just add to the "dumbing down of America" and will provide more training for students to get the attitude...it doesn't matter if I do it right the first time, I will have one or two more chances to do it better...and it's not my fault that and I have no responsibility to do it right the first time. I see the surprise in their eyes each time I unfortunately have to terminate one of them for violations of the work rules. For example, we had an employee who missed either Friday or Monday every week for the first 8 weeks he was employed. When I asked him why he only worked 4 days a week, he looked me straight in the eye and told me he couldn't afford to live on only three days of work so he had to work four.